reassure him as he wants to be known as one who stayed out of trouble. but he would be wise to remember that without the likes of the late fred shuttlesworth, herman cain wouldn't even be able to vote, let alone get the chance to run for the presidency. that's it for me. now my friend, dylan, is in washington, bringing his get money out campaign to the belly of the beast. and his show's about to start. you did it. 100,000 signatures in seven days. right, left, conservative, liberal, tea party, progressive. thousands building the digital wave, aligned together around a singular purpose. to remove the green curtain of monday that's blinding the city and get money out. we promised we'd take it to

washington. now we're here to get started. 140,000 so far. >> that's great. >> in nine days' time. i've presented the 20th century version for you here. >> thank you very much. and good friday afternoon to you. it is wonderful to be seeing you from washington, d.c. i have never been so happy to come the to this town in my entire life, as i was this morning. and as you can see behind me, we are live in washington, d.c., our nation's capital, for the very specific reason to begin a direct conversation with our legislators to get money out and get jobs in. more than 140,000 of us are standing together on the single issue, get money out of our political system and end the auction democracy. we got news this morning, and it was no surprise, on the other side of the ledger, the job

crisis in this nation is unchanged. the unemployment rate, unchanged at 9.1%. 14 million americans by the white house's numbers are unemployed. and if you look at the actual data, 20%, one in five of america's workers, or 31 million americans -- i want you to think about all the jobs plans you heard about -- 31 million americans either out of work, struggling in a part-time position, or working in a job that does not require the college degree that they put themselves into debt to get. joining us now, peter morici, former chief economist for the international trade commission and professor at the university of maryland smith's school of business. also with us, msnbc contributor, jared bernstein, senior fellow at the center of budget and

policy priorities, as well as vice president biden's former chief economist. it's a delight to see both of you. quick comment on the numbers today, and then let's get into it. but what do you think about this, jared? >> i think it's much as you said. i call it a kind of shaky stability, but at a level that's just unacceptable. the unemployment rate's been hovering around 9% since april. if you go back a year, we were generating around 160,000 jobs per month. not enough, but at least enough to take the unemployment rate from ten down to nine. then job growth decelerated, so the unemployment rate stuck. that's not enough to drive the jobless rate down. we're stuck. we've got some policy solutions, they're on the table, but the table's across the room and we can't get there. >> if you were to look at the policy solutions that are out there, peter, the president to his credit, out really whipping and stumping for a jobs agenda, directly targeting the gop.

the problem, it seems, is we're debating whether we're going to go with the president's plan, which at its best is 1.9 million jobs, or something less than that, when the order of magnitude of the problem that we face, much like the size of the debt that we face, is in the tens of millions of jobs, not one or two million. >> absolutely. the real tragedy of washington these days is there doesn't seem to be a grasp of how big the problem is, even if we get the stimulus package, it's a temporary fix. we've got to address these structural problems. the problems, you know, in the banks, rising cost of health care, up 9% next year. new premium schedules. the trade problem with china. and the ever-growing problem of energy, which, you know, solar energy, electric cars by themselves, important, yes, won't solve the problem. but neither side seems to really grasp, we need 13 million jobs in three years to get the unemployment rate down to 6%. >> at the end of the day, though, jared, you were inside of the machine. there's the gauge to get back to

where we were before 2008. we're running around 100,000 jobs a month. we need more than 300,000 to get back to where we were before the recession. but you've been in this machine, jared. what -- am i and the 140,000 petitioners correct in our assessment that the reason that we are not seeing more meaningful bank reform, the reason we're not seeing more meaningful trade reform, that the reason we are not seeing more meaningful tax reform is quite simply because all of the politicians are terrified to alienate the base that funds them? >> i think so. i mean, i think it's really that simple. we can make it as complicated as we want, but at the end of the day, you sit there and you ask yourself, and i agree with both you and peter. e we could do a little if we implemented, for example, the president's jobs act, and i think a little would be very helpful right now. i mean, if we don't even get the american jobs act into place, we're looking at an unemployment

rate that's probably where it is now if not higher a year from now. if we do, we can shave a point off the unemployment rate. not enough. but, look, here's one thing -- and this gets right to your 141,000 signatures. and i wanted to bring this to both you and peter. you're always talking about structural reforms and i'm with you all the way. the china currency bill debated right now in the senate is a great example of what we're talking about. i'm not saying it's going to save everything and make everything all better, but it's definitely going to help -- we all know they manage their currency. it's definitely going to help and you've got vested interests blocking this in precisely the way you're campaigning against, dylan. i wonder what you guys think about that. >> peter, how powerful are the special interests that protect the rigged trade structure that is so profitable for those who are on the other side of it? >> well, the chairman of the president's jobs committee, the chairman of general election, jeff immelt, you know, his company is a major outsourcer and doesn't want to upset the chinese regime. caterpillar, another one, a major player in this town. china doesn't need an embassy,

they've got caterpillar's government affairs office. but most importantly, wall street does not compete with chinese imports. they're most interested in locating banks in china. and as a consequence, tooth and nail, they oppose this so are we surprised that both the president and the speaker of the house are opposed to the china trade bill working its way through the senate? >> both the republicans and democrats are opposed to it. >> that's not quite right. the president yesterday in his press conference did not come out against china currency. and i think that's actually notable. peter may be right in the final analysis, but the president said, absolutely, they managed their currency. it was as strong a statement you're going to get from a president. >> what's he willing to do, jim? what's he willing to do? >> he certainly didn't -- >> he's willing to talk to them some more. he's not willing to take substantiative action. >> let's see. if that bill gets to his desk, i actually don't think he'd veto it. i think he'd sign it. >> i'd sure like to see that. >> here's the interesting thing,

though, jared. broadly, this is not a concept. we've watched trade practices going back to the dutch. we watched it in germany, with coming out of world war ii. we watched n eed it in japan, c out of world war ii. we've watched this over and over again. we know as a mathematical fact that tax and currency policy dictate if not influence the flow of hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in money, from one country to another country. we know for a fact that the largest country in the world, china, has rigged that seesaw of money away from us and to them. we know that certain u.s. multi-nationals are benefiting from that and lobbying in washington to preserve that. we know the president is out talking jobs, big job talk. and yet, where -- and not only, i don't think it's fear, peter, to put jared in the position of defending the president or

anything like this. >> well, he does that for the president. >> i think it's different, actually, in his defense -- >> look, if the president were to veto this bill, i would be sitting in this chair, being very critical. >> why isn't he championing it? >> that's right. why doesn't he get behind it? >> i think it's a good yes. and i actually would like to see democrats getting behind not just this bill, but also the jobs bill a lot more aggressively. my point is this. you guys are absolutely right, there are vested interests afoot, but i'm a little bit more pragmatic right now. we happen to have a bill on the floor of the senate that could help in the very structural ways you want. i'd like to -- why not make that a campaign? i haven't seen enough -- i haven't seen enough in the media about this bill, and it's not a simple thing, dylan. what you just outlined takes a number of -- and all the capital inflows. this is something we ought to elevate to as high a level as we can. let's make it very hard for people to back away from this china currency bill. >> and the more they understand how determinative this sort of policy is, the harder it is to run away from it, wouldn't you

say, peter? >> absolutely. i think if the president got behind the bill, but instead he said yesterday, well, it might not be wto compliant, i don't know what means, because i happen to know a lot about the wto, having made my tenure writing about it, but that thing is wto compliant, he ought to push for that bill and put a lot of pressure -- >> i agree with peter. i think it is wto compliant. >> absolutely. i think he's putting up a fake screen there instead of getting behind the bill. >> hold on, hold on, hold on. >> he didn't close the door. >> put yourself in his shoes. right now if you're the president of the united states, your obligation is to raise a total of $3 billion so you can win the presidential auction next year, the person who raises the most money wins. >> that's not his obligation -- >> no, no, it is if he wants to win. if he wants to win, he's got to raise $3 billion -- >> his obligation -- to the american people. >> dylan is right about this. >> go ahead. >> and his concern is he will lose the ability to raise the $3 billion he needs to keep his job if he alienates those who are

profiting from rigged trade. >> dylan, you pull down this green curtain, and we will have a much better economy. full stop. >> absolutely. there you go. i can tell you right now, i can guarantee you, i can't do it. i tried by myself for years on this channel. but we're going to do -- we need 100 million of us, okay? >> you've got jared bernstein and peter morici arm in arm. >> fantastic, gentleman. have a great weekend. thank you, jared. thank you, peter. again, to bring the jobs into this country, we have to bring flows of money into this country. right now, it's being removed. it's being removed as a matter of policy that's being auctioned off at our government, which is why we have to ban the auctioning of our government. get money out. that's the topic of our new blog post. it's up right now on dylanratigan.com and "the huffington post." to give it a read and if it connects with you, click on over to getmoneyout.com and put your name on the petition so that the next time it's brought to

washington, d.c., your intentions are represented to our politicians and make sure to tell a friend, as the growth in this petition is exclusively driven by modern-day digital wave theory. if you tell somebody else every time you sign up, the wave explodes. make it happen. coming up here on "the d.r. show," ten years and koucountin. what our specialist says the u.s. government does not get about the war in afghanistan. plus, more on the campaign to get money out, live from washington, d.c., including our conversation about our petition with senate majority whip dick durbin on the rising digital wave that broke on the beach of his office this morning. and then, the swell of support has been overwhelming, and quite candidly, inspiring. the response from all ends of the political spectrum and beyond. listen closely to the music in our show today, a special guest still to come. my doctor told me calcium

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well, you can call them pacs on steroids. as we all know, just as we bring the get money out campaign to congress, get a load of this. there's a word that the federal election commission has cleared the way for an even more powerful form of political giving. of money to a political auction. new fec rules will allow traditional bidding vehicles like pacs to essentially merge with the super pacs, allowing even more players into an unregulated, anonymous shadow fund-raising game that is used to fund the auctions of power in our so-called elections.

what more has to happen? what more do we all have to see, what more do you have to see before you decide it's time to get money out? well, it looks like our campaign to get money out and get jobs in has created at least one. we have a very exciting announcement to make after an exhilarating ten days. so let's bring in our mega, megapanel today. "the nation's" ari meller, krystal ball, msnbc contributor and author of "who's afraid of post-bla post-blackness?" toure, and making it mega, mega, jimmy williams. that's because he's part of our ten-day whirlwind, jimmy, the floor is yours. >> thanks, dylan. i appreciate it. first, let me just begin by saying to the mega panel, i'm in the company of some very good-looking people. i'm thrilled to be here. >> damn straight.

>> i'm just an ugly -- dylan, we've had a lot of input from people all across america, 140,000 plus people. but the one thing everybody agrees on, the system is fundamentally screwed up and broken. to that end, i'm really pumped and i'm proud to say that we have created and formed a foundation called get money out foundation. i've agreed to be the executive director of this. i don't know what the hell that means, but i've agreed to it. and the great news is is that i pledge to you, dylan, and to all 145,000 people that have signed this, that this will be the most open, the most honest, and without a doubt, the most transparent foundation possible. every donor that gives to the foundation will be made public, unlike those super pacs and pacs you just talked about. we have actually approached someone, dylan, who you and i both know and trust and care about that shares our vision and agrees that the system is

without a doubt broken. our guy, leo hindry, of intermedia partners has pledged to help us raise the seed money to help jump-start this and i am just pumped. i'm almost speechless about it. so that's my pledge to you, dylan, and to everyone who's signed up and to everyone going forward who actually care about this nation and give a damn about our government and want to restore faith in our government again. and that's what i'm here to do. >> well, i think, jimmy, we have all been humbled by the experience. we started this in a megapanel a few months ago, without fully, i don't think comprehending the intensity of the energy and how massive it would be underneath this. people from all corners have been offering their assistance, and leo's willingness to step up, so that we all, myself, and everybody else in this country, gets the benefit of your executive directorship to strategically drive this singular message into this election, jimmy, as something

that we're psyched about. are you kidding me? i think what's going to happen now, you're going to have krystal, toure, and ari all coming to work for you. they're going to say, when do we get jobs at the get money out foundation, right, krystal? >> i'm in, absolutely. i'm ready to sign up. >> dylan, let me say something. this is more than television. it's not a television stunt. you're using your platform on television to do something really important. this is a movement that the people need, and it's not just a look at our show sort of thing, but it's more than that. it's using the air waves to help the people, to create a movement that we couldn't create if we didn't have this platform. and, you know, i am proud of you for using your power here in this progressive way that might change america. when was the last time a show did that? >> yeah. well, the interesting thing, this was something that you know, toure, and anybody that has worked with me, has watched me the past few years, irate about the dysfunctional nature

of the government, to the point of my own detriment, many times. and i was honestly excited when i finally felt like i found a positive harness for my own rage and my own frustration, so that i could turn all of that energy into something that actually can do something. and i think what we're sort of all seeing together is not just the names in this petition, but across this entire country, with the occupations, in the entire behavior in this country is an awakening, lightbulbs going off, like flashbulbs at the super bowl at the same time. and all of a sudden, it's all sweeping through the stadium, the very simple awareness that we all agree to one thing, which is that we don't like a rigged game. nobody, whether you're a red sox fan or a yankees fan, awry, like to watch a sport where the refs are getting bought. >> i think that's right. and i think what you hear over and over is the more general idea that things don't work or things are broken.

and that's fine as observation. what's harder to do is to actually step back, look at the broader system, and try to associate yourself, whether you're watching at home or whether you're involved in politics in some way or you want to be involved, or whether, for some of us, we have the privilege of getting a bit of the microphone from time to time, taking that step back and associating yourself with structural change. which is fundamentally different than just saying, oh, i'm going to blame, you know, bush, because, you know, he's in power and we don't like what he did on civil liberties, but when obama comes into power, a lot of democrats get more quiet on that issue. and everything fades into partisanship and people lose some faith. here, what we're talking about, is not one party or the other party. we're talking about changing and equalizing the structural tectonic plates that undergo our democracy. >> jimmy, how important of the new executive director of the get money out foundation is it to focus on the long-term goal and the short-term integrity of

how we're going to get there and to have apl flexibility about t mechanics and the ideas. how much do we benefit from having a singular focus on a singular issue? >> well, anybody who's been to getmoneyout.com, you know that our main goal here is to get a constitutional amendment passed. you don't amend the constitution often. it's a hefty goal. but it's bigger than that. it's way bigger than that. how we get there, i don't know. we're going to -- some of this is we're flying by the seat of our pants, but a lot of this is just sheer determination. the bottom line is, the goal is simple. we've got to make america not hate their government anymore. everybody -- not everybody, but a lot of people in america are just so pissed off and they're angry. republicans, democrats, nonpolitical people, old, young, black, white, gay, straight, it doesn't matter, people are pissed off at their government. they don't think it's working for them. if you get money out, if you

stop the quid pro quo that is associated with a $25 donation or a $25 million donation, americans can finally look at their government and realize it's not bought. and perhaps then, perhaps, government will do what it's supposed to do, which is to help people when they need help and leave them alone when they need to be left alone. >> well, jimmy, not only do i wish you the best, i suspect every one of the 140,000 petitioners along with everyone who will join in the months ahead are very grateful to have the benefit of your experience as a 44-year-old man who has spent, again, a meaningful period of time in his career doing this. your skill set is unique in this context and we respect it and appreciate it and i'm sorry that i outed your age on national television. >> not only did you out new age -- that's fine, i'll take it. >> it's a compliment, it's

intended as love. jimmy, thank you very much. the panel stays. crystal, ari, and toure. jimmy has got some work to do, as you might imagine. so we're going to let him go. next up here, america's longest war. we're a decade into it. how can we actually get out of it? our specialist says america ought to look to the soviet union for some lessons. how's that make you feel? [ groans ] [ marge ] psst. constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue... i've got to tell susie ! the vending machine on elm is almost empty. i'm on it, boss. new pony ? sorry ! we are open for business. let's reroute greg to fresno. growing businesses use machine-to-machine technology from verizon wireless.

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away from our own country and into another that we have invaded. today marks a decade of combat, bloodshed, billions of dollars, and thousands of lives lost by our own nation and our own countrymen conducting war in afghanistan. it's a war that has now lasted longer than vietnam, a war that has lasted longer than world war ii, and as we know, it has divided our nation in the process.

two out of three soldiers returning say that the only reason that they are there is to either stay alive or help their brothers and sisters with them stay alive while they are there. this war also, of course, another example of money's influence on our policy making, with the money and the might of the military industrial complex perpetuating a conflict that, as i said, two-thirds of the soldiers in it, say they're there simply to keep themselves alive. if that's not a reason to get money out, i don't know what is. maybe then we can get out of afghanistan. our specialist today says that as the u.s. tries to exit afghanistan, although i'm not certain what that effort is at this point, there are more important lessons from the soviet union's experience in the 1980s that the u.s. must learn from. jonathan steel has been covering afghanistan for 30 years, most recently for "the guardian." he is author of a new book, "ghosts of afghanistan: the haunted battleground," the cover before you.

jonathan, the soviets were there for nine years, we've now been in afghanian longer than the soviet union, ten years. if anything, at this point, what lesson could we take and what will we do with it at this point? >> well, i think the main lesson is to realize that the war is unwinnable and there's not going to be any victory for the united states in this war. it's a stalemate. the taliban are not going to win either. but lessons from the ussr, the soviet period, is that you've got to start negotiating and start talking to the other side and trying to find a dignified way to get out and leave it to afghans themselves. i mean, gorbachev came in in 1995, very much like obama came in, inheriting somebody else's war, a war that had been started by his predecessor, and he realized that there was no victory coming, and luckily for him, unlike for obama, his military agreed with that. so he didn't have these gung ho generals just saying, just give us a surge, give us more time, give us more money, give us more

equipment. they say, yes, we can't win, so they didn't oppose him politically as he tried to withdraw. and i think that's really the big lesson that the u.s. has to take out of this. they can stay there. you won't be defeated, but you'll never win and you'll just spend more lives and more money. >> krystal? >> there steele, general mcchrystal said this morning that our view going into this war was frighteningly simplistic, and i was wondering if you could comment on what lessons we should have taken going in, what knowledge should we have had? should we just stayed out altogether? or were there things we could have known that would have led to a more successful conduct of this war? >> i think the big mistake was to conflate the taliban and al qaeda. i mean, it was al qaeda that did the 9/11 attacks. the 19 hijackers were not afghans, they were saudis. they didn't train in afghanistan, they trained in germany and florida, learning how to fly. so afghanistan was really peripheral. all that happened was that osama bin laden was living in afghanistan, but as soon as 9/11

happened, he moved away from the relative visibility of kandahar and to the tora bora mountains, where he couldn't be found. so when bush said that the taliban had to hand him over or they would suffer the consequences and be attacked, it was an unrealistic demand. how could the taliban, with their primitive technology, they have no drones, they have no satellites, they had no night vision equipment, how could they find him when it took the u.s. nine years to find osama? so how could you expect the taliban to have done it? >> ari. >> this is a simple question, although it may have a complex answer. if you were to told americans in 2003 or 2004 that we would have located osama bin laden and killed him, whether we did it on the battle field in afghanistan or drove him out of there and found him somewhere else, i think a lot of people would have thought, well, okay, that was a key objective. it doesn't mean everything is done, but that would signal a real major shift in our orientation towards the region and extricatining ourselves fro that field of battle.

that really hasn't happened at all, as you've documented. why is that? >> well, i think the obama people haven't learned the lesson. remember, there was a surge in the public opinion polls after osama bin laden was killed in may this year. more people said at that point that we should get out. still a majority of the u.s. public and the british public, by the way. said the troops should leave. but, somehow, people now, that's receded, it's six months ago, and obama is still there. and worse than that, he seems to want to keep troops there, even after 2014. i mean, there's a little bit of a fake deadline. people think, okay, combat troops will be out by 2014. well, that's maybe true, but he wants to keep a residual force, which could be several tens of thousands of troops there in a new capacity. i mean, new, actually old, that would be called advisers, like the u.s. -- people under kennedy in vietnam were called or trainers or engineers or whatever. but they would still be armed and carrying weapons. >> and if iraq is any indication from the e-mails i get from

contacts and friends of mine who are still there, inside the u.s. military, where american soldiers are still being killed in iraq, long after the official withdrawal, these deadlines don't seem to mean much of anything, toure. >> yeah. that's what i want to talk about, the withdrawal is a misnomer. we are still there very much and losing lives and spending money. is it possible, looking now and into the future, is it possible to just leave? just take everybody and go home or have we done things, militarily and politically that make that impossible and we've made it so we have to stay there for much longer? >> well, i think there are two wars in afghanistan. one is the foreign interrecognitiintervention, and the other is the civil war among afghans. it would be great if the u.s. could use what leverage it still has over these three or four years until the combat troops do withdraw to get the afghans, all of them, around a table, to try and produce a government of national unity, which would be

recognized by the regional powers, after all, which have traditionally tried to interfere in kabul, and get them to accept that this is a new independent, sovereign, self-sufficient afghanistan. and that, obviously, means you have to talk to the taliban and the other insurgents and bring them into the picture. and at the moment, the u.s. is divided on that. some people seem to be saying, yes, let's talk. i mean, the u.s. administration. and then there are other forces that are saying, no, no, we can degrade the taliban, kick them in the face, knock them down a little bit, and then we can negotiate from a position of strength. but your strength will never be stronger than it is now. it's declining all the time. >> jonathan, we appreciate your candor and your willingness to speak very directly with us on a subject that is central, really, to the integrity of our nation and, obviously, our foreign policy and our identity, let alone our respect for our own soldiers and our own national coffers. thank you very much, jonathan.

jonathan steele. ari, krystal, we'll see you next friday. toure stays. he's going to do a little rant. i think i know what this one's about, but i won't give it away. straight ahead here, you saw us bring him our petition to get pun out. well, now we have a get money out foundation with jimmy williams. well, we also brought that paper and a flash drive, since what we're building is a digital wave. and next, will dick durbin get on board? [ male announcer ] nature valley

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or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your rheumatologist how you can defend against and help stop further joint damage with humira. as i hope you saw at the start of the show, senate majority whip dick durbin gave all of us, 146,000 now, some of his time to accept our signatures to begin the conversation that we with intend to make overwhelming, unrelenting, and massive by next year's presidential election. we also spoke, of course, about the only thing we care about.

how do we get money out of politics? here's the rest of the conversation. >> it is a timely issue. and i'm glad that you took the leadership on this. because i really think there's a strong american sentiment for change in washington, and it starts at the core of our political system. how we raise money, how much money we raise, and the impact of special interests on the decisions made every day in congress. >> you've been working on this, unrelated to any of the recent activity, for a very long time. why did you make the decision to focus your resources on trying to get money out? >> because i think it's out of control. we are now in a world where the average campaign costs millions of dollars. and now forces from the outside are coming in with super pacs and special interests. and we just don't have any way to get a grip on this situation. i can't tell you, it would be embarrassing to tell you how much time every member of congress has to spend, unless they're independently wealthy, on the telephone, begging for money. it's not healthy for our government, it's not healthy for

our nation. >> how many signatures has to go into the digital wave by next year's elections in order to be heard by this town? >> i can tell you that it's just, it's not just the signatures, and they're important, but it's people connecting up. blogs and websites and facebook pages, where they believe in this and will come together. this social media, i think, has great power behind it. and then the connection, where they take their sentiments, district by district, state by state, to the senators and congressmen and ask them for that meeting to sit down and talk about this important issue. those who are in congress already have the virtues of incumbency, think they understand how to raise money, don't want to change the system. and that's what's hurting us in congress. then across the state at the supreme court, of course, is this notion that money is speech, and unlimited money means unlimited speech. i don't think that's true. i think it's going to corrupt our process. but those are the two forces against change. >> well, if you wouldn't mind on our behalf, if you can let the

supreme court know and those who resist it, warn them that the surf's up. >> it is. >> we're now working our way toward 150,000. just over the past 40 minutes of this program, news of the get money out foundation, led by none other than our own jimmy williams, we all continue our get money out special program, honoring the first 100,000 on the petition. and in moments it will become crystal clear why we've been playing the goo goo doll's greatest hits in this particular show, and it's not just because their songs are so darned catchy. [ groans ] [ marge ] psst.

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well, as you with may not know, back in new york city at hq, "the d.r. show" offices are on the same floor as "saturday night live." while "snl" has historically had their musical guests hit the stage a little bit after midnight, for our special get money out show here in washington, our musical guest is joining us a little after 4:45 eastern, just before 2:00 out on the west coast. the goo goo dolls reached out to us, as so many have, because they want to get money out. surprise, surprise. so joining us now is lead singer of the band, john resnick. and john, tell us a little of your story. why is it that you want to get money out? >> well, i think it's important

to get the money out of the politics now, because i don't think that any of the politicians on either side of the aisle are able to represent the people properly when they constantly have to -- they're out raising money, constantly, to get re-elected, and also, the fact that, you know, like you were saying in the last segment, that unlimited money is unlimited speech. and until elections are publicly funded, you know, they're going to be bought. and we've given -- we've done a lot of fund-raising with democrats and republicans. this is not a left/right issue. it's a common sense issue that we will be much better represent ed by, you know, the people that we elect if they're actually beholden to us and not to a corporate payoff. >> yeah. was there a specific issue that you were concerned about or that you have been paying attention to, that you saw just not getting resolved and finally you

realized that it was ant two-party issue, but, in fact, it was a bought government issue? >> i think the fact that the american taxpayers are on the hook for, you know, to bail out all the banks, and the banks have just gotten even bigger, so they can't fail. and now they're just slapping people with another $5, you know, fee on this, and, you know, on the debit card. it's just a never-ending nickel and diming that's allowed to go on. nobody on wall street was arrested for the crimes they committed. we're stuck in a stagnant economy. a lot of our trade deals are unfair. and we can't possibly compete with other countries that, you know, use slave labor, ton honest with you. and we need to really, really get the money and the corporate money out of politics, because money is not -- should not

dictate how much your vote is worth. >> an interesting question just occurred to me. you, obviously, are one of the more talented and more celebrated musicians working in our country today. and if money is speech, does that mean that money is also a song? >> if money is speech, is money a song? >> if money speech, is money song? >> i suppose it could be. >> not one you'd want to listen to. >> yeah, right, exactly. >> listen, we've had a lot of folks, a lot of resources coming in from a lot of people in different ways. some people bring money. leo hendry said, listen, i'll seed the foundation. jimmy williams said, listen, i will leave my career as a lobbyist here in washington, because i'm disgusted, because it's become fund-raising. i'll be the executive director. there are 140,000 and counting people who are participating in a public exercise in digital

wave theory. > >> yes. >> can we double ourselves in public by simply each one of us taking responsibility? and one thing that i was wondering is whether we can list people like yourselves and other musicians and other artists in general to invest your resources in america, by throwing events, by sponsoring events over the next year, where we can have conversations like the one you and i are having, with people and communities all across the country, with bands from all across the country, with food from all across the country. >> mm-hmm. i think, i think that we're entirely behind you. we love the idea of get the money out so much that we're -- you know, we're just about to start a tour of the states. and we're going to bring ipads out with us, and we're going to put them out in the hallways at our shows, and we'll talk about it from the stage. we're going to get as many people to sign your petition as possible. and you know, our band is completely behind you and whatever we can do to help you

out, you know, we're more than willing to do. >> yeah. well, i'm thinking folks like yourself, the most valuable experience about being able to even interact with musicians and artists is people enjoy what you do. they enjoy your songs. they enjoy the art. and i think the more we can harness musicians and artists over the next year in general to offer up that art, to gather communities across the country, so we can have these conversations, i can't think of a more valuable contribution than that. and i appreciate your stepping forward like this, john. >> we're just really grateful to be part of it. it's a great thing and i think that you're really starting something important. i think that this is something that really, the time has come. it's long, long overdue. and god bless you for starting it. >> yeah, no, listen, they say that energy just exists. and i think that this energy's been there for a long time and we're now watching it just swell up around all of us. i think it's just for us to harmonize with it and harness it for positive change, because

it's so powerful. john, listen, thank you so much. we look forward to working with you and all the artists in this world to help us drive this message into the local community, and by the way, make it fun for the next year, for that matter. musicians behind the wave, wealth behind the wave, and more importantly, you behind the wave. but all that music, of course, something that so many of us have been listening to on our ipods. can you see where i'm headed? toure's back with a daily rant on you know what. getting enoug? yeah, maybe not. v8 v-fusion juice gives them a full serving of vegetables plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit. v8. what's your number? is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal.

and now with his friday edition of a daily rant, the

author, i might add, of "who's afraid of post-blackness?" my friend and neighbor, toure. >> the people who did the most to change music culture in the past have been musicians. the beatles, the stones, james brown, motown. in the '70s, l.e.d. zeppelin, sly stone. in the '80s, run dmc, michael jackson. in the '90s, nirvana, snoop dogg. but in the last decade plus, the american music scene has been changed less by any artist or movement than it has by the ipod. the legacy of steve jobs casts a large shadow over the music world. he's as much as a game changer as the beatles or run dmc. these are not changes he set out to make, he just released an awesome product. but the way people use ipods has changed the way they relate to music. when i was a kid, there were lots of boom boxes around. the walkman hadn't been invented yet, so music was a public experience. it was communal. we knew what each other was listening to. then the walkman, the discman, and the ipod, which is far more popular than those previous

iterations of the portable music player. the ipod came out and privatized the music experience, made it something you do alone, so others can't easily know what you're listening to. this is good for public spaces, but it makes it harder to -- for music to bring us together as it once did. but one thing that the ipod does that the walkman and discman never could is it put an almost infinite amount of music at your fingertips all the time. what this means for many people is the latest music must compete for your attention with everything you've ever loaded on to your ipod. so for many people, catching on to what's new is a little harder, because it's so easy to access the comfort food of music you loved months or years ago. the ipod has also eroded the idea of music as something physical. you used to get a piece of vinyl or cassette or a cd, now you get an mp3, a virtual thing. those physical manifestations of music came with photos that enhanced the brand, maybe liner notes or lyrics which broadened

the artists' message. but some of that was subterfuge. now music has to stand on its own as a sonic entity or it fails. i don't really know what some of my favorite groups even look like, and i don't care, which is great, because i love their sound. this helps uly talented artists and hurts those who appeal is primarily visual, britney. also, albums used to be complete documents. you listened to the whole album in order because the sequencing and the variety of songs told a story. now we've gone back to how things were in the '50s, when it was about singles. but we've lost the relationship with albums, which were long-form conversations with the fans. none of this is to say i wish the ipod hadn't been created or things were better before. i love my ipod, i never leave home without it, but as society and technology evolves, so will culture and artists must evolve in response to technology. >> and the way we'll carry them. from the looks, if anything, how fast and how far we've come,

toure, is only a small indication of wherever it is we're headed. thank you so much for your nice comments earlier in the day. >> thank you. in the past nine days, you know it, i know it. we have now built a 148,000-member wave. 7,000 to 8,000 new members in just the past 45 minutes. and today we brought all of your energy, our energy, this wave energy to washington, d.c., in order to initiate a process to get money out. leo hindry and jimmy williams have together established a foundation to advocate for that singular cause. together we, you and i, have proven the power of the digital wave and we have only just begun. the evidence, the surge of activity, in less than two weeks' time, from something that did not exist to something that will clock through 150,000 signatures within the next